President Trump

[JimHow]

I have an idea... Let's ask the (few) surviving relatives of the wedding in Somalia killed by US missiles what they think about American presidential justice, I'll follow their advice on what we should do about Orange Head....

[JimHow]

Now as I recall, Billy launched a strike that killed dozens of innocent civilians in a foreign land on the day a grand jury was hearing testimony from a 20 year old girl who was describing him spew his semen all over her dress at the end of a blow job in the same Oval Office where once stood Abraham Lincoln. On a separate occasion, he stuck a cigar up the 20 year old's lubricated vagina and then smoked it, in the same Oval Office. And then he lied about it -- perjured himself -- in a federal court deposition. Okay, I got it, my liberal friends, that Donald Trump dude is worse....

[JimHow]

Presidential candidate and sitting governor Bill Clinton left the campaign trail to personally oversee a retarded Black man put to death in Georgia, in the middle of a campaign, because he (and his buddy Newt) did not want to appear weak on crime. So are they all, all honorable men.

[tim]

I'm sorry, I can't equate this with the Nazi experience in 1930s Germany.

Jimmy, I think you are misrepresenting 1930s Germany. I know a LOT of German people today. They are as nice as the Americans I know. I cannot imagine that somehow their disposition has gone through a dramatic change based on their genetic composition since the 1930s. I bet that 1930s Germany had a majority of people who would bring you eggs from their farm. They were nice, genuine people. They also were brainwashed to follow a demagogue driven by a sense of being victimized. Your neighbors have a lot more in common with 1930s Germany than you are willing to admit.

[JimHow]

George W. Bush and Richard Cheney oversaw the illegal waterboarding and other forms of torture of captives who TO THIS DAY, in this great self-proclaimed land of freedom and due process, have not had their cases litigated. He had the "honorable" Colin Powell LIE to the world about the existence of "weapons of mass destruction," leading to the deaths of MILLIONS of innocent people.

And now he is Michelle's buddy because he cutely hands her candy at funerals.

Got it. About One Million more people died illegally under the Dubya administration than under Orange Head, but Orange is the criminal because he has some papers in his bathtub and he's being a dink about giving them back.

Got it.

[tim]

George W. Bush and Richard Cheney oversaw the illegal waterboarding and other forms of torture of captives who TO THIS DAY, in this great self-proclaimed land of freedom and due process, have not had their cases litigated. He had the "honorable" Colin Powell LIE to the world about the existence of "weapons of mass destruction," leading to the deaths of MILLIONS of innocent people.

And now he is Michelle's buddy because he cutely hands her candy at funerals.

Got it. About One Million more people died illegally under the Dubya administration than under Orange Head, but Orange is the criminal because he has some papers in his bathtub and he's being a dink about giving them back.

Got it.

And Capone was a criminal because he lied on his taxes.

And just to confirm, you don't think the attempt to stop the peaceful transition of power is reason enough to stop Trump from ever holding public office again?

[tim]

Starting with that greatest monster in human history, by the way, one Harry S. Truman.
When I was in politics there would be the occasional reference to HST, because of my "plain spoken" approach to issues. And I would immediately shy away from and challenge it. Don't mention me in the same breath as the devil (I hope he is burning in hell) who incinerated hundreds of thousands of innocent "Japs," without even a formal order on his way back from Potsdam.... And he would have dropped a third one if someone had finally said, um, maybe we should take a break here for a day or two...

God bless America... But a few random papers in boxes in a bathtub... The horror...

Okay, got it... Let's put this asshole in prison, Because, you know, all of our other former presidents have been shining beacons of justice and democracy.

Got it.

Should we turn to LBJ?

Out of curiosity, if it was a choice between genocide and nukes, which would you choose?

[JimHow]

You don't really believe 1 million American boys were going to die if we didn't nuke Japan, Timmy, do you?
My Dad was scheduled to leave from Rome for Tokyo in spring 1945 and even HE realized then, at age 20, that was propaganda.
I've got some books on the subject if you'd like to revisit that issue.
When I rank my presidents, HST is always last, because of the evil that he perpetrated upon innocent Japanese citizens, ages 1 to 100.

[JimHow]

But... not as bad as hiding some boxes in a bathtub in south Florida.

[tim]

Didn't answer the question, but that's okay.

On the other subjects, I think you are targeting your disdain in the wrong direction. Republicans removing people from committees for political retribution. Attempts to impeach the head of DHS because they disagree with his policies. Holding the government hostage over the debt limit. Your outrage is seriously misdirected.

[JimHow]

I'm totally outraged by all of those things you listed, and MANY more.
Far worse, Trump and the GOP's efforts to circumvent democracy by taking control of state legislatures, getting zealots into ministerial election positions, the Kari Lake phenomenon, etc., etc.

On all of that, I am 110+% percent with you. I'm just disagreeing with you on the issue of prosecuting a candidate for the presidency during an election year on grounds that I don't believe warrant upending a heretofore successful democratic form of government over the past 250 years.

[Hm$(still)]

All the comments about Obama and Clinton are mere whataboutisms. They don’t make innoculate Trump from charges in the indictment. But it does make me long for British rule again; at least the politicians across the pond have the decency to resign when they are caught disgracing their office.

Hm$

[tim]

On all of that, I am 110+% percent with you. I'm just disagreeing with you on the issue of prosecuting a candidate for the presidency during an election year on grounds that I don't believe warrant upending a heretofore successful democratic form of government over the past 250 years.

So you are saying that all someone has to do to avoid prosecution for crimes is to run for office?

[tim]

Far worse, Trump and the GOP's efforts to circumvent democracy by taking control of state legislatures, getting zealots into ministerial election positions, the Kari Lake phenomenon, etc., etc.

Also, just an observation, but I don't think Trump is behind the state legislatures, it is far too Machiavellian for him. Trump is concerned with one thing: Trump. He is, for all intents and purposes, a narcissistic idiot. He is not responsible for the current SCOTUS nor most of the policies that he pursued.

[JimHow]

Didn't answer the question, but that's okay.

it's because I'm "stupid," Timmy. Like all of us who have an opinion different from the geniuses on the left. The rest of us are a bunch of dummies, like my neighbors the would be Nazis. By the way, my dumb neighbor’s Dad fought at Normandy, his name is in the war memorial down by the river, near my father’s name, another WW2 vet. I see nothing in those nice folks across the street that compares to the Nazis of Germany. The husband is Polish as well, a Palman, similar ancestry to mine, the grandparents came over in 1912 (mine in summer of 1914), their sons fought in WW2 and Korea, etc. I get a kick out of when thee phony elitists from the left look down on good people who look at things differently, the initial response is to call them Nazis and stupid. And then they wonder why the dummies run yo Trump and the Fox News crowd thst gets under their skin.

[Racer Chris]

The answer is zero for all three

(america is not imperialist)

[DavidG]

I’m not buying the “Johnny did something a lot worser, and he got away with it” defense.

[Racer Chris]

Get ready for more federal indictments of DJT, and a likely state indictment in GA.
The guy really is worse for the world than all your previous examples of American hegemony Jim, despite attempts at false equivalency by misrepresenting the facts.

And yeah, your good neighbors are in a cult.

[tim]

I must admit it is frustrating constantly hearing how misunderstood and wonderful Trump voters are, and how awful those libtards are who are trying to take away all their freedom. The Fox News chyron says it all: WANNABE DICTATOR SPEAKS AT THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER HAVING HIS POLITICAL RIVAL ARRESTED.

[stefan]

In my fantasy world, this drama ends with

>>
NewsFlash: Biden Pardons Trump.

NewsFlash has learned that former president Donald Trump and President Joe Biden have come to the following agreement.

1. President Biden will pardon former president Trump for federal crimes that he committed or may have committed while President of the United States.

2. Former president Trump will agree not to run again for any public office.

3. President Biden will agree not to run for reelection.
>>

Ain't gonna happen; no way, no how. Too bad.

[JimHow]

I once in my arrogance mocked Stefan for being from Texas and giving us Abbott, and Cruz, etc.
And then he said: Yeah, but you've given us Susan Collins.
I must admit I did not have a response.

[tim]

I think Trump is Biden's best bet to getting re-elected. I don't think he will win against other opponents.

[JimHow]

Agreed.

[DavidG]

In my fantasy world, this drama ends with

>>
NewsFlash: Biden Pardons Trump.

NewsFlash has learned that former president Donald Trump and President Joe Biden have come to the following agreement.

1. President Biden will pardon former president Trump for federal crimes that he committed or may have committed while President of the United States.

2. Former president Trump will agree not to run again for any public office.

3. President Biden will agree not to run for reelection.
>>

Ain't gonna happen; no way, no how. Too bad.

Must have been disappointing to awaken from that dream.

Aside from all the partisan stuff, they’re both too frickin’ old.

Someone upthread, Mark I think, said it’s sad that this is the best the US can come up with. It’s true, but probably more due to the way we elect our leaders than for lack of better people.

[JimHow]

Daniel Ellsberg dead at age 92. I met him back in February 1990 in an elevator in the defense ministry building in Moscow when I was the newly elected young mayor of Lewiston and a spy for the NSA. Those were heady days.

[tim]

Daniel Ellsberg dead at age 92. I met him back in February 1990 in an elevator in the defense ministry building in Moscow when I was the newly elected young mayor of Lewiston and a spy for the NSA. Those were heady days.

I have heard from extremely confidential sources that you were not a spy for the NSA. CIA perhaps?

[JimHow]

Ha ha, you think I’m kidding! CIA, NSA, basically the same thing. Sat next to Harry Reasoner on the flight over. I was 31 years old, looked like I was 14, was absolutely convinced I was going to be president some day.

[JimHow]

By the way, folks....
If you haven't heard the Bobby Kennedy Jr. interview on Joe Rogan, do yourself a favor.
His message will resonate. His father was my hero, and I will never vote for this conspiracy theorist in a primary, but he will be a problem for Joe and the Democratic Party in the months ahead. Don't discount him as a flake.

[JimHow]

The story of Dan Ellsberg is pretty amazing....

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/16/us/d ... -dead.html

His accounts of millions of innocents killed by American presidents not rising to the hiding of some papers in a south Florida bathtub, of course.... Lock him up!

[AKR]

Does anyone think Trump can use the 'Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity' defense?

[DavidG]

No, and I don't think it is anywhere within him to even try it.

[JimHow]

Please. I am begging you, Biden Justice Department.
Please don't indict duly-elected President Trump over the January 6th riot.
I beg you. Just don't do it.

[Racer Chris]

What's this "duly elected" shit?

[JimHow]

Well even Hillary would agree he was lawfully elected in 2016. My concern is that we are becoming South America, and Myanmar, and Indonesia, and….

[Racer Chris]

Every citizen is subject to the laws of this country. When he was president he was immune to prosecution. Nothing more. Real successful democracies hold their past leaders to account for misdeeds.

[DavidG]

Well even Hillary would agree he was lawfully elected in 2016. My concern is that we are becoming South America, and Myanmar, and Indonesia, and….

Some might argue that train has already left the station… on January 6, 2021.

Jim, would you feel the same way about not indicting him if he wasn’t running for office? Would it make a difference if there was evidence that he was involved in some non-politically related crime, like wire fraud?

[Musigny 151]

“ Well even Hillary would agree he was lawfully elected in 2016. My concern is that we are becoming South America, and Myanmar, and Indonesia, and….”

I am not even sure about that. If it had undergone the same scrutiny as 2020, it would have probably not held up.

[RPCV]

I hesitate to write this, but I am so disappointed in our country. Having lived abroad and kept in touch with many friends over the years from several continents, we are so dysfunctional. Friends say "how can the US elect Trump and Biden in consecutive elections? What has happened to your country"? Crazy times...

[Blanquito]

The US didn’t elect Trump — James Madison did.

[JimHow]

I need to see the evidence before I think he should get charged. If he just told an angry crowd to go march to the Capitol and then delayed doing anything about the riot, then, no, I don’t think he should be charged. The real crime that day was the lack of security in the first place.