40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post Reply
User avatar
Comte Flaneur
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm
Contact:

40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Comte Flaneur »

At Piccolino restaurant in London EC2, 4/17/25

2008 Moet Chandon

This has a recognisable mass produced Moet Chandon signature. It is a crowd pleasing formulaic style but I found it a little bit on the sweet side for my liking. Very different creature to the much more serious and brooding 2008 DP. Looked at uncritically it is tasty, but one glass is more than sufficient…88pts

On to the main event of 1985 clarets. One theme that emerged was the consistency of these wines (apart from the two faulty ones). My scores for the sound 1985s were tightly bounded in a 92-94 pt range. It was another good showing for the 1985 vintage and again I was surprised by the youthful vigour of some of these wines (Gruaud Larose and the two Leovilles), while some of the others were approaching the end of their arc of maturity (e.g., Pape Clement, La Lagune and Haut Batailley).

F1

DDC

Stemmy nose with ash notes; not a typically demonstrative graves nose. On the palate initially rather svelte and classy with an impressive finish. But it evolves and drops off in the glass …. and then starts to improve again. It is enigmatic and somewhat of a chameleon, but an interesting DDC…92 pts

Pape Clement

In magnum. Much more exuberant and expressive graves nose with alluring menthol overtones. Ostensibly really delicious and a point, though a bit obvious and not the last word in complexity … and not as good as a superb bottle of the 1996 recently; but it delivers a lot of love…92 pts

Rauzan Segla

Relatively subdued entry, but some trademark Margaux floral notes, a lovely mouthfeel, and a superb finish. Neat and tidy, light on its feet, and nuanced, this wine just exudes finesse and is a bit classier than its two graves flight mates. A super bottle…94 pts…we often comment on the estates which really had a purple patch in the 1980s - Pichon Lalande and Gruaud Larose of course - but one which is less often mentioned is Rauzan Segla.

F2

Gruaud Larose

This wine was in superb condition for a 40 year old. It was noticeably more structured than anything in the first flight. I didn’t love this as much as some others around the table, however. Maybe because it seemed to lack a bit of grace and charm that is a hallmark of this vintage…but still, overall, a strong showing...92 pts

Lagrange

I expected this to play second fiddle to the Gruaud but it didn’t. A very different wine, it is rounder and more inviting and beautifully resolved. It was ripe, tasty and delicious. Someone on the table said ‘fudge’ and I got that too, so a slight lack focus perhaps marred an otherwise impressive display…92 pts

F3

Leoville Barton

Yet another one excellent bottle of this quintessential claret. Like the Gruaud and its flight mate Leoville Lascases, this had an impressive structure and energy pointing to many more years of high level drinking. At the same time the component parts are well integrated with classical cassis, cedar and cigar box notes…94 pts

Leoville Lascases

I have been lucky enough to try this wine well over a dozen times and I am coming to the view that it probably needs more time. This bottle, while impressive, reinforced my impression that there is more to come here. Last night’s bottle was not as brilliant or as delicious am ex-chateau Latour d-mag last Saturday, when the conventional wisdom is that LLC is the better wine…on last night’s showing 94 pts…I have had more enjoyable bottles of this and I would rather drink the 1988 today and leave the 1985 for a few years.

F4

Lynch Bages

A very good bottle of 1985 Lynch Bages but not a scintillating bottle - like the brace we had a couple of years ago at Noizé restaurant (one on each table) - but much better than some of the greener examples one can encounter (like my below par bottle at the 2023 London convention). This was highly pleasurable Pauillac and more open knit and fun than either of the Leovilles in the previous flight…94 pts

Haut Batailley

Some dark muttering from across the other side of the table that this might be corked, which turned out not to be the case. Like the Lynch recognisably Pauillac, lighter and with less stuffing, this was nevertheless a likeable, charming and somewhat rustic mature Pauillac. If mature, old-fashioned left bank claret floats your boat this really delivers…92 pts

La Lagune

A late entrant and again questions were raised as to its integrity and soundness. Like the Haut Batailley open and lose knit, but charming and no more than medium-bodied with some attractive edgy menthol notes…like the HB very enjoyable even if there were ultimately better wines on the table…92 pts

Pontet Canet

This was destined to be the weak link in the line up because in those days Pontet Canet was more akin to a cru bourgeois than a classed (fifth) growth. I had a little bet to myself that this wine would be k-nackered. Which proved to be the case. Maderized …and corked too NR

Montrose

Opened as a back-up this was also corked unfortunately

Lafaurie Peyraguey 2007

Absolutely superb…I would say 94 pts

IMG_7100.jpeg
Footnote: 1985 Chateau Latour, double magnum, released from the Chateau in 2025 to celebrate my friend Jono’s 40th, 4/12/25.

To say that the wine was pristine would be an understatement. Likewise to say it was in the perfect spot would be also an understatement. This wine had the poise, majesty, gravitas and imprimatur of a fully mature Latour, with a gorgeous, medium-bodied and seductive attack of ripe berry fruit, with cigar box, tobacco and cedar notes. It has such supreme elegance and effortless refinement and grace, with a tad still of residual grippy tension...97 pts…even though Latour has sometimes been seen to have been behind some its first growth rivals in this vintage this is right up there with the best experiences of the 1985 vintage I have ever had.

My second pour from the d-mag
Attachments
IMG_5398.jpeg
User avatar
Nicklasss
Posts: 6689
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Nicklasss »

Very nice report Ian.

Again from that read, the conclusion on the 1985 is that balance is the key to longevity. Some of the wines like Gruaud, LLC, Mission Haut Brion or Pichon Lalande seem to be good forever. But i find you a bit tough on 1985 LLC not being ready… i will possibly open a bottle of the 1996 next week with JeanFred, as he is tempted to open a 1996 Latour…

As you confirmed you’re not coming to Lewiston this summer, i’m starting to think i should go back to London for a few days, before the World collapse. And take back the 2014 Giacosa i left at your place in 2023…
User avatar
JimHow
Posts: 20987
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:49 pm
Location: Lewiston, Maine, United States
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by JimHow »

We'll convince him to come to Lewiston yet, Nicola!
User avatar
Comte Flaneur
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Nicklasss wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:51 pm Very nice report Ian.

Again from that read, the conclusion on the 1985 is that balance is the key to longevity. Some of the wines like Gruaud, LLC, Mission Haut Brion or Pichon Lalande seem to be good forever. But i find you a bit tough on 1985 LLC not being ready… i will possibly open a bottle of the 1996 next week with JeanFred, as he is tempted to open a 1996 Latour…

As you confirmed you’re not coming to Lewiston this summer, i’m starting to think i should go back to London for a few days, before the World collapse. And take back the 2014 Giacosa i left at your place in 2023…
I don't have any of your 2014 Giacosa Nic - may be you left it somewhere else? But I do remember drinking much older Giacosa with you and your lovely family, and I still haven't drunk those two lovely bottles of claret you kindly gave me - 95 Haut-Bailly and the 02 Pichon Lalande.
User avatar
JCNorthway
Posts: 1605
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:31 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by JCNorthway »

Thanks for the report, Comte. I have exactly one bottle of 1985 Bordeaux - a magnum of Pichon Lalande. I probably should drink it soon, but the first magnum drunk three years ago was still quite youthful.
User avatar
Comte Flaneur
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Comte Flaneur »

JCNorthway wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 8:26 pm Thanks for the report, Comte. I have exactly one bottle of 1985 Bordeaux - a magnum of Pichon Lalande. I probably should drink it soon, but the first magnum drunk three years ago was still quite youthful.
Hi JC ... we did not have that in our line up, but from what I have heard, and experienced, you don't even need to rush on bottles, let alone magnums, of 85 PLL
User avatar
DavidG
Posts: 8509
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:12 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by DavidG »

Very nice group of wines. Lynch, Gruaud, and Leoville Barton were favorites but long gone from my cellar. Good to hear they’re all still drinking well. And another LLC that still needs time at age 40.
User avatar
Nicklasss
Posts: 6689
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Nicklasss »

Comte Flaneur wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:27 pm
Nicklasss wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:51 pm Very nice report Ian.

Again from that read, the conclusion on the 1985 is that balance is the key to longevity. Some of the wines like Gruaud, LLC, Mission Haut Brion or Pichon Lalande seem to be good forever. But i find you a bit tough on 1985 LLC not being ready… i will possibly open a bottle of the 1996 next week with JeanFred, as he is tempted to open a 1996 Latour…

As you confirmed you’re not coming to Lewiston this summer, i’m starting to think i should go back to London for a few days, before the World collapse. And take back the 2014 Giacosa i left at your place in 2023…
I don't have any of your 2014 Giacosa Nic - may be you left it somewhere else? But I do remember drinking much older Giacosa with you and your lovely family, and I still haven't drunk those two lovely bottles of claret you kindly gave me - 95 Haut-Bailly and the 02 Pichon Lalande.
Hi Ian. I checked back and it is a 2012 Barolo Falletto. I brought it to the restaurant on 2023 Thursday night dinner, but as you brought 2 1996, we did not opened the 2012. I thought you brought it back home, but i might be wrong.
Last edited by Nicklasss on Sun Apr 20, 2025 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Comte Flaneur
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Nicklasss wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 10:38 pm
Comte Flaneur wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:27 pm
Nicklasss wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:51 pm Very nice report Ian.

Again from that read, the conclusion on the 1985 is that balance is the key to longevity. Some of the wines like Gruaud, LLC, Mission Haut Brion or Pichon Lalande seem to be good forever. But i find you a bit tough on 1985 LLC not being ready… i will possibly open a bottle of the 1996 next week with JeanFred, as he is tempted to open a 1996 Latour…

As you confirmed you’re not coming to Lewiston this summer, i’m starting to think i should go back to London for a few days, before the World collapse. And take back the 2014 Giacosa i left at your place in 2023…
I don't have any of your 2014 Giacosa Nic - may be you left it somewhere else? But I do remember drinking much older Giacosa with you and your lovely family, and I still haven't drunk those two lovely bottles of claret you kindly gave me - 95 Haut-Bailly and the 02 Pichon Lalande.
Hi Ian. I checked back and it is a 2012 Barolo Falletto. I brought it to the restaurant on 2023 Thursday night dinner, bit as you brpught 2 1996, with did not opened the 2012. I thought you brpught it back home, bit i might be wrong.
Come back over to Blighty Nic and I will very gladly open other - older - bottles of Giacosa for you - as I have a good stash and I need to drink them with people like you who will really appreciate and understand them
User avatar
Comte Flaneur
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Comte Flaneur wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 11:05 pm
Nicklasss wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 10:38 pm
Comte Flaneur wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:27 pm

I don't have any of your 2014 Giacosa Nic - may be you left it somewhere else? But I do remember drinking much older Giacosa with you and your lovely family, and I still haven't drunk those two lovely bottles of claret you kindly gave me - 95 Haut-Bailly and the 02 Pichon Lalande.
Hi Ian. I checked back and it is a 2012 Barolo Falletto. I brought it to the restaurant on 2023 Thursday night dinner, bit as you brpught 2 1996, with did not opened the 2012. I thought you brpught it back home, bit i might be wrong.
Come back over to Blighty Nic and I will very gladly open other - older - bottles of Giacosa for you - as I have a good stash and I need to drink them with people like you who will really appreciate and understand them
I did see a 2012 somewhere yes - I will try to find it - it is likely in one of the storages and give it to Joel to take to Maine as he is coming through London in a few weeks
User avatar
stefan
Posts: 6447
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: College Station, TX
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by stefan »

Thanks for your usual great write up of a wonderful wine experience.

I drank through several cases of 1985 La Lagune. The last few bottles, while good, were not as vibrant as previous ones.
User avatar
dstgolf
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:00 am
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by dstgolf »

Comte,

Great review of the 85s and couldn't disagree with your assessments. One comment is regarding LLC. For me this is a perennial disappointment. I've never been wowed by this wine and all I ever hear in reviews(my own included) is it needs more time!!! I don't mind hearing the wine is drinking well now but will improve with age but I rarely if ever hear this with LLC. This is 40 years out and you're still saying needs more time. This is just crazy to think that you have to wait 50 yrs or more to appreciate a wine??!! I'll take Latour any day. A wine that has never disappointed at any time in its life.
Danny
User avatar
Comte Flaneur
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm
Contact:

Re: 40th anniversary 1985 Bordeaux dinner

Post by Comte Flaneur »

dstgolf wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 8:21 pm Comte,

Great review of the 85s and couldn't disagree with your assessments. One comment is regarding LLC. For me this is a perennial disappointment. I've never been wowed by this wine and all I ever hear in reviews(my own included) is it needs more time!!! I don't mind hearing the wine is drinking well now but will improve with age but I rarely if ever hear this with LLC. This is 40 years out and you're still saying needs more time. This is just crazy to think that you have to wait 50 yrs or more to appreciate a wine??!! I'll take Latour any day. A wine that has never disappointed at any time in its life.
Interesting Danny - the conventional wisdom on this side of the pond is that this is a LLC you can broach with confidence. Now I have many good experiences with this wine - and it is certainly more forward than the 1986 and even the 1982 - this last experience persuaded me it needs more time. This is a wine that I have never owned - I think the 1978 and 1988 are the vintages to drink now - and the I think 1990 delivers more pleasure.

stefan - I could tell the 85 ‘Gune was one of the wines approaching the end of its ark of maturity, but it was a happy encounter.

Nic - good news is that I have found a bottle of 2012 Giacosa Falletto which must be your bottle. I have recently picked up some young Giacosas in a sale but no 2014s or 2012s hence my confusion/brain fog. So unless you are planning a trip to Blighty soon I will ask Joel to slip it into his suitcase when he passes through London to deliver to you in Maine.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: RyanM and 47 guests