If price weren’t a factor, I’d probably never bother drinking chardonnay outside of Burgundy. But price is a factor, so I dip my toe in new world chards and I’ve found a half dozen I really like. In addition to Liquid Farm, I like chardonnay from Wind Gap (often dirt cheap these days), Mount Eden, Rhys, Ridge, and Enfield. With the possible exception of Mount Eden, none of these get the nuance and intrigue of a really good white burgundy, but at the same time I don’t find any of these heavy, alcoholic, monolithic, etc. Rather, I find them bright, minerally, balanced, refreshing, food friendly, but comparatively speaking, a touch straightforward.s*d*r wrote:Just for something different tonight with my red snapper with caramelized onion, I tried a 2017 Kongsgaard Chardonnay. While the femme enjoyed it, I was reminded for the 1000th time why I don’t like California Chardonnay. While the alcohol was almost under control, the burnt pineapple and bitter oak tannins were off putting to me. Never had a Liquid Farm, though.
Is the *worst* Burgundy blanc better than the *best* California Chardonnay (troll fishing)?
Stu
But a chardonnay like Mount Eden is like $50+, and you can still get solid white Burgundy premier crus or quality village lieu-dits for $60-70. Is the quality close enough that it's not worth the relatively small step up in price? I say this not having tried Mount Eden.Blanquito wrote:If price weren’t a factor, I’d probably never bother drinking chardonnay outside of Burgundy. But price is a factor, so I dip my toe in new world chards and I’ve found a half dozen I really like. In addition to Liquid Farm, I like chardonnay from Wind Gap (often dirt cheap these days), Mount Eden, Rhys, Ridge, and Enfield. With the possible exception of Mount Eden, none of these get the nuance and intrigue of a really good white burgundy, but at the same time I don’t find any of these heavy, alcoholic, monolithic, etc. Rather, I find them bright, minerally, balanced, refreshing, food friendly, but comparatively speaking, a touch straightforward.s*d*r wrote:Just for something different tonight with my red snapper with caramelized onion, I tried a 2017 Kongsgaard Chardonnay. While the femme enjoyed it, I was reminded for the 1000th time why I don’t like California Chardonnay. While the alcohol was almost under control, the burnt pineapple and bitter oak tannins were off putting to me. Never had a Liquid Farm, though.
Is the *worst* Burgundy blanc better than the *best* California Chardonnay (troll fishing)?
Stu
I hear other AFWE speak highly of Ceritas, but I haven’t tried one yet. I’ve not had the Oregon chardonnay epiphany yet either, but they’ve been getting lots of accolades for some time.
I got the 2016 Niellon C-M Clos Maltroie Premier Cru for $65 at auction, and per WInesearcher it is still available on pre-arrival at Vins Rares for that price. Not as good a white vintage as 2017 but that site did escape the 2016 frosts. Who knows it if is actually better than the base village but it is a step up the hierarchy. I do see a lot of white Burgundy 1ers to backfill in the $60-70 range at auctions. Then if you go to St Aubin you can definitely find them at $50. What seems definitively gone is the ability to get village wines in that $25 range.Blanquito wrote:As much as I love a great Chablis, it doesn’t provide the same thrill as a Meursault, Puligny or Chassagne for my palate. I’ve had much better luck with some closer satellite appellations like St Aubin and even Rully at getting something like a facsimile for Chassagne or Puligny.
But the white burg I’ve come across of late that gives the magic at close to the ~$50 marker is the 2017 Niellon Chassagne villages, but the best I can find that for is $58 (which is still very tempting). Liquid Farm on the other hand — which I just got some more of at $28.50 — is priced in a different league.
I actually like roundness in white Burgundy, as long as solid levels of acidity and lift are there. In my (limited) experience even the "round" white Burgundies will still have far better balance and minerality than new world whites. You can go too far in the acidity direction as well IMO.Claudius2 wrote:Jal
2014 and 2017 are better for whites if you like acidity, minerality and length over roundness.
When I was ITB we were poured Kumeu River Mates Chard blind. It was very good in a Burgundian manner. Although this was 15+ years ago I recommend it.marcs wrote:Also, re Chardonnay, has anyone tried the top New Zealand Chardonnays like Kumeu River? The London critics pitch that as competitive with Burgundy and it's similarly priced to the Chardonnays you mentionBlanquito wrote:If price weren’t a factor, I’d probably never bother drinking chardonnay outside of Burgundy. But price is a factor, so I dip my toe in new world chards and I’ve found a half dozen I really like. In addition to Liquid Farm, I like chardonnay from Wind Gap (often dirt cheap these days), Mount Eden, Rhys, Ridge, and Enfield. With the possible exception of Mount Eden, none of these get the nuance and intrigue of a really good white burgundy, but at the same time I don’t find any of these heavy, alcoholic, monolithic, etc. Rather, I find them bright, minerally, balanced, refreshing, food friendly, but comparatively speaking, a touch straightforward.s*d*r wrote:
Stu
I hear other AFWE speak highly of Ceritas, but I haven’t tried one yet. I’ve not had the Oregon chardonnay epiphany yet either, but they’ve been getting lots of accolades for some time.
This is an interesting point about wines in the blind tasting context. It's why I only really trust the test of sitting with a wine over an evening. The second glass of a wine is where you learn a lot about how drinkable and appetizing it actually is, as opposed to just its initial palate impact. In my experience this "plodding heavy" quality is also a big deal with California Pinots as opposed to BurgundyComte Flaneur wrote: Kumeu River always does well in blind tastings against white burgundy. Everybody gets fooled. Until you sit down with a full bottle over an evening and you realise these wines are plodding/heavy in the saddle compared to fine white burgundy. Having said that the wine society Exhibition Kumeu River is good value at £17.99.
Finishing the second half of the bottle tonight, and if anything I’m liking this even more now. Still defined by its acids, but the nuance of the fruit has emerged with distinct notes of white tea, ginger, musk flowers and sultanas now to go with all the lime. Shows a wonderful combo of zest and depth. Really good. Nothing remotely cloying, boozy or heavy here.Blanquito wrote:2015 Liquid Farm White Hill Chardonnay is just terrific tonight. Super bright, gooseberry bright almost, with lime and minerals and a kiss of vanilla, so fresh and clean and a wonderful value in New World chard. The attack is so crisp and intense, you almost miss the layers of (dry) fruit and substance. Long, tangy and delish.
In my early wine days I drank a lot of Spanish wines, less so today. Caceres was a staple.stefan wrote:2010 Marques de Caceres Rioja Reserva. We drink Spanish wine at home maybe once or twice a year. We should drink them more often as it is difficult to find a similarly priced Bordeaux that is as satisfying as this Rioja. Also, while still quite young and full of tannin, this wine is more accessible than 2010 Bordeaux.
I have taken a shine to another kiwi white this time a Seresin Sauvignon Blanc 2011, another remarkably young wine. It is a fine aperitif with its cacophony of bright tropical fruits. It is a nice pick me up, but only one glass at a time. One a day.marcs wrote:This is an interesting point about wines in the blind tasting context. It's why I only really trust the test of sitting with a wine over an evening. The second glass of a wine is where you learn a lot about how drinkable and appetizing it actually is, as opposed to just its initial palate impact. In my experience this "plodding heavy" quality is also a big deal with California Pinots as opposed to BurgundyComte Flaneur wrote: Kumeu River always does well in blind tastings against white burgundy. Everybody gets fooled. Until you sit down with a full bottle over an evening and you realise these wines are plodding/heavy in the saddle compared to fine white burgundy. Having said that the wine society Exhibition Kumeu River is good value at £17.99.
The one problem is that selecting a collection for irresistibly drinkable wines means you have a tendency to overindulge when you open a bottle...
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