TN: 1988 Château Pape Clément

[salilb]

1988 Château Pape Clément (France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan)
Starts out with a powerful aroma of cigar smoke, gravelly earth, cedar and deep red fruited flavours upon opening, and it just builds and develops over a few hours in a decanter. There's great depth and balance, and an incredibly finessed and polished texture that gives it a sheer drinkability I've rarely found in younger claret. Truly outstanding, and my best bottle yet.

[Houndsong]

So from what I understand this would be nothing like more recent vintages of Pape Clement? Who took it in hand, when, and how did they ruin it? (as some I guess classicists say).

[Comte Flaneur]

Hound - I detect what we call over here a 'troll'...

...but that is what makes discussion forums interesting...

On your first point, more recent vintages of Pape Clement tend to be richer, more extracted, more 'modern' and more internationalised...whether that is a good or a bad thing is for each to decide...I happen to think it is regrettable, but that is just my opinion...but the fact is, these are opinions and not facts

On your second point, Michel Rolland became a consultant sometime in the mid to late 90s (I think) about the same time as Bernard Magrez, the French business tycoon, purchased the estate...between 1995 and 1998, the style of the wine altered dramatically...the 1995 is quintessentially old style Pape, the 1998 new style...the style was changed in the standard ways...lower yields, more extraction etc.

Pape Clement used to be one of my favourite and 'go to' estates...I bought a lot of wines from 1986 onwards: 1986, 1988, 1989 and 1990 are all fabulous examples of Pape...and were exceptional value for money in the days. The old style Papes have also demonstrated the ability to age very well, as wines from the 50s, 60s and 70s attest.

I was dismayed by the change in style, evident in wines like the 1998 and 2001, though I like the 2004. I don't believe that lower yields automatically equates to a better wine...what you gain in extract and concentration you may lose in personality. But clearly, from a commercial point of view it made sense, because Pape Clement wines command much higher prices now and garner much higher scores. The same applies to the whites as well. I dont find these wines very interesting at the price point.

On the 1988, I have enjoyed many bottles of this wine and have one left. However at our non-trophy 80s event, I felt it was a little bit below par.

[salilb]

Ian,
I enjoyed the bottle we had at the 80s event though was not blown away by it. The one this past weekend was far better, and the complexity and finesse was on par with some of the better first growths I've had.
What have your experiences been with the 1996? (Have seen some on the market recently, but avoided as I wasn't sure if this was from the spoofy-PC era.)

[Comte Flaneur]

Hi Salib
I have had the 1996 many times, and it is a very good wine, which has been drinking well for a while. It may well continue to evolve and improve. While I like the 86/88/89/90 better I certainly wouldn't describe it as spoofy, though it is less tradiditional than the 1995. If the price is OK I wouldn't hesitate to buy.
Having returned to the UK I just picked up a stash of wine I was storing in someone's cellar, which includes two bottles of the 1994. I will try one and report back. Last time out it was lovely.
Ian

[Blanquito]

I just had the '96 P-C a few days ago. This is not a modern wine at all. If anything, it was borderline lean, but I loved it. I had a bottle 4-5 years earlier and this recent bottle showed marked improvement from then. Without a trace of heaviness, the '96 showed great intensity and length, and it had that classic scorched earth Graves thing in spades.

I think Rolland came on board there in 1998.

[Bacchus]

I've only ever had the 04, so can't compare it against the older style. That said, I liked it when I had it, although I don't remember being blown away by it. It didn't seem over-extracted at the time, but neither was it thin and weedy! I think RobertGoulet should try it out!

[Nicklasss]

The only Chateaux resisting to the ''modern style Bordeaux'', seem to be Figeac, Durfort-Vivens, Sociando-Mallet and Saint-Pierre.

All other seemed to have integrate more or less of the ''modern style''.

Nic

[Bacchus]

And even St-Pierre may have gone over to the dark side, Nic. According to Faryan Amir-Ghassemi the 09 is:

"St. Pierre – Too much. Too much oak, too much extraction. Vanillin, toast, drying fruit that smacks one in the mouth. I don’t understand why they build their wines this way (welp… the big points they garner). There is no elegance and restraint to their wines anymore. I think 05 was the last vintage that didn’t push this envelope too far."

http://www.connectionstowine.com/bordea ... -ghassemi/

[salilb]

Nic

How about Haut Bailly? That's another one of my favourite producers of claret - I haven't tasted anything younger than the '96 (have some 01s I do not plan to touch for a little while longer), but I've always found those wines remarkably finessed, elegant and seamless - the sort of claret I'd pour for a regular Burgundy drinker. Will be a real shame if that has changed.

[Comte Flaneur]

Haut Bailly has been one of my favourite producers too...the 04 and 06 are outstanding, for example, but it tends to be very long lived...my 98s are still not even close to being ready...however from 2009 Haut Bailly got very big scores and now commands very high prices...so it to may have gone over to the dark side, but I dont know...maybe they just made really great wine.

Two of my favourite right bank producers are Belair and Figeac. I really enjoy the subtle, nuanced style of these producers, and so was dismayed what I read about 09 Figeac recently on these pages. Likewise Belair's Pascal Delbeck had to sell out to the Moeuix family, and guess what? Yields have been cut by two thirds, scores have zooomed up into the mid-90s (for a wine that never managed to score over 90) and prices have sky-rocketed. A depressingly familair script.

Lower yields does not necessarily equate to better wine and can rob the wine of its personality.

[salilb]

Well they've been making really great wines for a while - maybe Arpy figured it out at last?

No argument re. the longevity of Haut Bailly. Recently acquired 3 bottles of the 1966 H-B at auction, opened one this winter and it was astounding. Looking forward to the others.

Fully agreed on the yield issue as well. Heck, Jacky Truchot in Burgundy and Helmut Dönnhoff are known for having higher yields than most in their areas, and they've produced some of the most finessed and compelling wines I've ever tasted.

I need to try some Figeac. Any thoughts on the 1979 Belair, Ian (or anyone else who may have tried it)?

[AlexR]

Pape Clément: there seems to be a string of threads these days on the spoofulation of Pape Clément. I don't find it to be some mighty beast on steroids, but much more of a traditional vin de terroir. It's true that I haven't tasted it en primeur in recent years, but vintages up to 2005 have been fine, and not "over the top".

2009 Saint Pierre: I was very impressed with this wine and bought a few bottles as futures. It is bursting with fruit, but is NOT overdone - just a sensual Médoc Cabernet in a ripe year. I very much look forward to drinking this, and will try my first bottle at the end of the present decade.

Yours sincerely,
Alex R.

[Comte Flaneur]

Alex - if you ever participate in a vertical of Pape Clement you will notice a pronounced inflection point in the mid to late 90s. The younger wines are thicker, more full-bodied, more anonymous/less true to the graves terroir. That was certainly my impression when I participated in such a tasting a few years ago. The 95 ran rings around the 01 which was clumsy and unbalanced by comparison. Maybe the younger wines needed time to calm down, but the 04 showed a lot better than the 01. I wouldn't suggest that they are 'some mighty beast on steroids' like some right bank wines one could care to mention, but the change in style was noticeable. This was part of a wider left and right bank tasting featuring the wines of Magrez and the actor Gerard Depardieu. The right bank and GD wines were frankly awful.

Nothing I have encountered has changed my opinion. A very good friend of mine visited Bordeaux in January and tasted 2008 Haut Brion, LMHB and Pape Clement rouge on the same morning. She said the HB and LMHB were in a different league to the Pape, which was spoofulated by comparison. Magrez's apparent mission is to make wines to match Haut Brion - seems like he has some way to go.

Salib - I have not tried the 1979 Belair - but when I was in the US in January I saw it on sale and was tempted...I bought a case of 1985 in the UK a couple of years ago for about $350, and the wines were variable...the good ones were very nice. I would plump for the 1995, 1998, and 2004 Belair. I have these plus the 2005.

[Blanquito]

We had the 1986 Pape Clement last night-- wow, it was good. Definitely an '86 in style (stern, iron-infused), but undoubtedly a thrilling wine. It combined an old-school austerity with good fruit and body, terrific aromatics, and wonderful depth and persistence. Too bad it's >$100 bottle these days. I wonder if the '88 is a good?

[AlexR]

Patrick,

It will never cease to amaze me how great old Bordeaux is cheaper overseas than in the region of production...

Alex R.

[Tom In DC]

I'm not seeing that very much these days, Alex - a lot of wine was boxed up and shipped back to the UK and the Euro Zone over the last few years while the US$ was weak.