Quintus, and its detritus...

[AKR]

Some of you might remember the owners of Haut Brion have been expanding their empire, in particular in St Emilion

http://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2013/12/ ... -top-wines

And it seems like they have started either pushing out their legacy inventory, or their supply chain has.

For example two months ago K&L offered the 2010 Tertre Daugay for $22 which is a nice price for a good vintage, good scoring wine. I haven't had any before but nibbled on one anyways; there won't be anymore under that name going forward.

It's grapes will be going into Quintus, a new label, and the plan is to charge a $100 for that one. I question their timing/ambition but time will tell.

Perhaps also interesting to the crowd here is that l'Arrosee has also been acquired, that name is being retired, and those grapes will also be absorbed into the new moniker Quintus, where the intention is to create something at the St. Emilion grand cru A level. Who knows how that will work out.

But again, a large portion of the older stocks of l'Arrosee seem to be hitting the market. I've had some vintages, and although not a favorite, its an interesting uncommon wine. It's probably more in the mold of the finesse St. Em's like Magdelaine or Larmande. I've only had a maybe 5 vintages, mostly courtesy of a friend who had picked up the taste for that and Figeac while he lived in Switzerland.

Chicago seems to have an unusually large amount at both HDH and TCWC. I picked up a single of the 2006 from the latter for $35, shockingly low for that estate. Recent vintages are all well regarded, but the overall style here is very restrained, and they usually don't show well when side by side with ooze monsters. People who know/like the estate probably should gather up other years too.

So Quintus has created some detritus in its formation, which I'm not complaining about.

[AlohaArtakaHoundsong]

Nice forensic vinography there.

[AlexR]

Hi Arv,

Both Tertre Daugay and L'Arrosée will be combined.

The former has consistently been one of the most disappointing wines of Bordeaux, and was demoted from cru classé status.
This was widely seen as a warning shot for Premier GCC La Gafferlière which also had some serious quality issues.

However, the terroir is first rate.

This makes me think of the Quié estates in the Médoc: Rauzan Gassies and Croizet Bages.
The wines are pretty boring. But the terroir's potential is fantasic.
With the right manager and appropriate investments, these wines would soar.

So it is, to me, with Tertre Daugay.

Quintus is quite a Young wine, so needs to hit its stride, and incorporate l'Arrosée to define its character.
As opposed to Tertre Daugay, l'Arrosée has always had a good reputation.

My money is on Quintus in the medium term as a great wine. I have difficulty imagining Haut Brion (Domaine Dillon) producing anything less than a very fine wine.
By the way, they have opened up a new restaurant and wine shop in Paris. I'm dying to go there the next time I'm in Paris: http://www.lefigaro.fr/gastronomie/2015 ... messes.php


All the best,
Alex

[Blanquito]

I am a huge fan of 1980's-era L'Arrosee, I still find well stored bottles of the 82, 83, 85, 86, 88-90 quite mesmerizing. I think it's style changed enough in recent years compared to 20-30 years that I don't particularly mourn its passing (unlike Magdelaine, Figeac, Canon).

[AlohaArtakaHoundsong]

What's up with the pretentious, gladiator-esque praenomen? Yeah we know the Romans were there. Or is this something more prosaic like it's the fifth brand in the portfolio. Or is there a Chinese angle?

[AKR]

Hi Arv,

Both Tertre Daugay and L'Arrosée will be combined.

The former has consistently been one of the most disappointing wines of Bordeaux, and was demoted from cru classé status.
This was widely seen as a warning shot for Premier GCC La Gafferlière which also had some serious quality issues.

However, the terroir is first rate.

This makes me think of the Quié estates in the Médoc: Rauzan Gassies and Croizet Bages.
The wines are pretty boring. But the terroir's potential is fantasic.
With the right manager and appropriate investments, these wines would soar.

So it is, to me, with Tertre Daugay.

Quintus is quite a Young wine, so needs to hit its stride, and incorporate l'Arrosée to define its character.
As opposed to Tertre Daugay, l'Arrosée has always had a good reputation.

My money is on Quintus in the medium term as a great wine. I have difficulty imagining Haut Brion (Domaine Dillon) producing anything less than a very fine wine.
By the way, they have opened up a new restaurant and wine shop in Paris. I'm dying to go there the next time I'm in Paris: http://www.lefigaro.fr/gastronomie/2015 ... messes.php


All the best,
Alex

For some reason they hit it big/lucky with the 2000 Rauzan Gassies. I drank a half case over the years and it was generally a strong, powerful wine, somewhere between B+ to A- in quality depending on the bottle, decanting time. I probably consumed it too early. Perhaps I should be glad I only saw their radiant effort, although I might have some untasted 2005's, purchased off the halo of that year.

La Gaffeliere has disappointed me most times I've had it - in particular 95 and 98. Trying to remember if I had a 90, but not sure. I gave up on the 95's and got rid of them, never had any fruit/depth.

[Blanquito]

Didn't Parker give the 05 La Gaffliere 95 pts?

[Blanquito]

Didn't Parker give the 05 La Gaffliere 95 pts?

I checked, he gave it 96 pts...

"The finest La Gaffeliere I have ever tasted, the prodigious 2005 boasts a dense ruby/purple color in addition to a flamboyant bouquet of lead pencil shavings, creme de cassis, blackberries, smoked meats, incense, and Asian spice. Fabulously deep and full-bodied as well as ethereal and exceptionally elegant for its explosive richness and intensity, its lightness of being reflects the vineyard’s sensational terroir. This succulent beauty appears to be approachable, but that belies some significant tannins. Anticipated maturity: 2014-2030+. Score: 96 pts. "

[Blanquito]

96 Parker points given in 2009 means I'd either love it or hate it. I think I have 3-4 bottles.

[AlexR]

La Gaffelière's Dark Ages ended when Stéphane Derenencourt was taken on as consultant. Don't know in exactly what vintage.
It had really regressed.

Rauzan Gassies: yes, Arv, I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement. The château's track record is pretty poor, but there have been some successes.

But I have never heard anyone praise the sister château, Croizet Bages.
Parker nailed it: life is too short for Croizet Bages.

Alex

[AKR]

it's not quite yet a Bahans Haut Brion

Some months ago, I had drunk the now defunct l'Arrosee (with locale BWE cadres) mentioned up-thread as a backup bottle after the main wine proved to be TCA afflicted, so I figured it was worth trying it's next incarnation. The last couple of nights the 2012 Le Dragon de Quintus [St Emilion] has been gracing my goblet. Despite a big heavy bottle, and a gaudy label, and 14% abv, this right banker is actually medium bodied, and polite, fashioned in a finesse rather than power mold. Ten years has given some time for it to show itself, so I suppose this early example of their Quintus' second wine is now fair to judge. Still more on the garnet side, no bricking at the edges, with a mesquite bouquet. Cranberry, then licorice on the palate, with a bit of higher toned acidity. It's not a good value, but these restrained St Emilions are getting smaller in number, so if one likes them it's probably worth giving a recent vintage a try. Newer examples incorporate yet another vineyard - from Grand Pontet - into the mix and I believe are no longer allowed to use the Grand Cru on the label. This 2012 for some reason was allowed to; I don't think the Dillon's are submitting Quintus into the beauty contest for Premier Grand Cru A, B, whatever anymore after all the recent chaos in the AOC. Overall, I'd grade this a tepid B. Presumably winemaking will get better here as the team becomes more familiar with all the nuances of their Brady Bunch grape sources.

PS: by the last glass on the third day, some hazelnut/macadamia nut complexity had developed.

[AlexR]

I'm sure that Domaine Dillon have their sights set on grand cru classé status, which they couldn't do in the last classification because of having swallowed up Grand Pontet (not that this was disallowed, just too recent).

I have yet to be impessed by Quintus, but it takes years to create a reputation. The positioning is very high end, quite pricey in fact. It will take more than Haut Brion's prestige to get on track.

Best,
AR

[Claudius2]

Guys
Interesting thread mentioning wines that seem to create a range of views.

I bought a case of Terte Daugay 2005 at auction several years ago. At ten years of age it did manage to show some fruit but was dominated by charry oak and alcohol. I reviewed it with a note saying: “THIS is a St Emilon?”

Seriously each bottle after that got worse - the last few ended up in cooking and I’m not sure that was a good idea. So if it has been merged into another estate, then good idea provided that the new estate can make better wine. Oh well.

A friend gave me 2005 Croizet Bages a few years ago. Blind I would never have picked it asia Bordeaux let alone Pauillac had I not seen the label. But it wasn’t as nasty as the Terte Daugay. I gulped it down without much thought but it was actually okay - just a simple, medium bodied wine. The label is weird. It says Pauillac at the top as if that is the wine, and Ch Croizet Bages in smaller writing below. They seem to be selling real estate.

Not sure if the comments about Galleffiere are about style or quality. It has never really been on my radar but I tried the 2019 a few months ago and quite liked it without loving it. The wine seems to be more about Cab Franc than Merlot with rather savoury, sinewy characters. It stood out at one tasting for these characters and did receive differing reviews. Blind it seemed like a wine from a cooler climate. It had been some years since I’d sampled it but the style did not appear to change.

[Musigny 151]

The quality of Gaffeliere was bloody awful for several decades. Not sure what went wrong, and I am glad to say they seem to be on the mend, as the current owners are very pleasant.

[AKR]

The quality of Gaffeliere was bloody awful for several decades. Not sure what went wrong, and I am glad to say they seem to be on the mend, as the current owners are very pleasant.

I always wondered if my experiences with La Gaffeliere were underwhelming because it seemed to linger at retail, and perhaps shopworn, and shopwarm, bottles might not delight as much as the best stored examples. But it seems others experienced this too.

Some years ago BWE'er GeneM poured us a pretty good 1966 though!